As usual, if you want them now, email us.
The one month older boy, MG + blue
Wednesday 28 October 2009
OctoberFest Juvies
Fresh from the grow up tanks, nicely coloured with great attitudes. They're the top of the batches with the rest of the clans catching up in sizes and forms. Copper, blue, green, and mixed colours.
As usual, if you want them now, email us.
The one month older boy, MG + blue
As usual, if you want them now, email us.
The one month older boy, MG + blue
Friday 18 September 2009
Accidental purple
There are a couple "blue" males in our tanks and we always thought they're quite special. The blue colouration is different from the typical steel or royal blue. They have a black body, with a white base colour (courtesy of copper), and a very nice deep purplish colour. A not-so-good sample of them is here (this one is a bit over-exposured and blue background!).
Perhaps this is a way to produce a purple colour? If you notice, many purple colouration is actually a lavendar variant. They have strong red in the body. Well, what would you need to produce a pure purple colour without red in it?
Talking about pure random thoughts, perhaps we can mix some ideas to see if we can produce that purple....
The nice thing about copper (specifically copper green), they have the shiny purple colour if you shine torch to it on different angle. Now, if one would be able to extract that purplish colouration and mix it with blue, over some generations you'd create a purple wouldn't it? Well, not really...since both blue and copper are not technically compatible. You'll get lots of red-wash. The blue produced from this mix is what we're seeing as "super blue" or any of the metalic blue variants.
A completely accidental that we've done was to mix copper, lavendar, and green variants. Whoala, F3 produces a nice set of deep purplish colour with clean non-red showing up. F4 may not inherit these colour though, since we'd expect copper/multi variation will be thrown, but surely a couple of them will produce consistent purple...Time to experiment to see if we can achieve this.
Perhaps this is a way to produce a purple colour? If you notice, many purple colouration is actually a lavendar variant. They have strong red in the body. Well, what would you need to produce a pure purple colour without red in it?
Talking about pure random thoughts, perhaps we can mix some ideas to see if we can produce that purple....
The nice thing about copper (specifically copper green), they have the shiny purple colour if you shine torch to it on different angle. Now, if one would be able to extract that purplish colouration and mix it with blue, over some generations you'd create a purple wouldn't it? Well, not really...since both blue and copper are not technically compatible. You'll get lots of red-wash. The blue produced from this mix is what we're seeing as "super blue" or any of the metalic blue variants.
A completely accidental that we've done was to mix copper, lavendar, and green variants. Whoala, F3 produces a nice set of deep purplish colour with clean non-red showing up. F4 may not inherit these colour though, since we'd expect copper/multi variation will be thrown, but surely a couple of them will produce consistent purple...Time to experiment to see if we can achieve this.
Monday 14 September 2009
Virgin and eager to spawn
This poor boy has been lined up in the spawning tank for sometime. We haven't gotten any time to spawn him - not having much time to care for his fry.
Seems to be a perfect match for one of OHM females. Wonder what the offspring would look like.
This male has 32 branches at least...no, nothing is wrong with his body, it's just that he bends when pix was taken.
Seems to be a perfect match for one of OHM females. Wonder what the offspring would look like.
This male has 32 branches at least...no, nothing is wrong with his body, it's just that he bends when pix was taken.
Thursday 10 September 2009
Introducing "Dwarfy"
Dwarfy is part of a few bettas in the community of dwarfs from one of our spawn. He has the length of about 2cm (about less than 1 inch) at the age of nearly 2 months old. His half siblings (from same father but different mom) are at least double if not 2.5 times longer than him.
Here are his pix with the same age half-sibling boy. The half-sibling is 1 week younger or so, dad was a hard-working betta ;) ...
Here are his pix with the same age half-sibling boy. The half-sibling is 1 week younger or so, dad was a hard-working betta ;) ...
New breeds of potential
Some of the youngsters in our tanks at the moment. Looks very nice though still way too young. Will be 2 months in a couple of days time. All of them will be HM and OHM pretty much soon, the tail spreadIf you're interested, they're $20 each.
Friday 4 September 2009
Time to choose breeders
There are some nice batch coming up soon and this reminds us on this issue: when is the best time to choose your next breeders.
Well, we find that the best time would be when the fry has started to flare. Give it a good couple of days separation and let them flare, then you'll know which ones you'd like to keep as your breeders. This happens usually around the age of 2 months old, sometimes earlier at 1.5 month but could be as late as 2.5 months. By the age of 3 or 4 months you should know clearly whether your choice was correct :)
This approach of choosing breeders leads to some of the very best and largest of your batch being chosen. Sometimes, although very rarely, you may want to choose smaller fish as your breeders. For instance, we currently have a very nice OHM female and she's definitely a breeder with no doubt despite her size is still smaller than her siblings. Yet, we also have her largest sibling male as breeder since he has all the quality that we are looking forward to.
There are times when you have all-same-quality batch of bettas where every fish is quite similar in quality to every other in the tank. If that's the case, then you don't need to be picky. Any of them is good for your breeding.
Quality of breeders that should be showing when your fish is about 2 months old in HM:
Update 07/09:
Some pix, all will be 2 months old next week. The red boy is a good breeder ;)
Well, we find that the best time would be when the fry has started to flare. Give it a good couple of days separation and let them flare, then you'll know which ones you'd like to keep as your breeders. This happens usually around the age of 2 months old, sometimes earlier at 1.5 month but could be as late as 2.5 months. By the age of 3 or 4 months you should know clearly whether your choice was correct :)
This approach of choosing breeders leads to some of the very best and largest of your batch being chosen. Sometimes, although very rarely, you may want to choose smaller fish as your breeders. For instance, we currently have a very nice OHM female and she's definitely a breeder with no doubt despite her size is still smaller than her siblings. Yet, we also have her largest sibling male as breeder since he has all the quality that we are looking forward to.
There are times when you have all-same-quality batch of bettas where every fish is quite similar in quality to every other in the tank. If that's the case, then you don't need to be picky. Any of them is good for your breeding.
Quality of breeders that should be showing when your fish is about 2 months old in HM:
- all fins (caudal, dorsal, and anal) have to be as long and as large as possible.
- vigor - your fish should be active and agressive
- when you've got that 'spark' in your heart whenever you see them
Update 07/09:
Some pix, all will be 2 months old next week. The red boy is a good breeder ;)
Tuesday 23 June 2009
Market dictates ST, breeders use DT
How do you improve finnage? That question is asked way too many times !
Go and cross your HM to DTHM, that will improve the finnage.
Funny how we treat DT. If you look at DT on auction sites, it is rarely filled with posts. Not that many people sell DT. It's just not "hot" enough. But what you need to consider is....you need DT if you'd like to improve the finnage. So, you may not be able to sell it, but you need to keep it to improve your "other" lines, so that the "other" lines can be sold better. How ironic....at least that's how many other breeders have been treating DTs...
We personally love DT. Some of our best fish were DTs. However, it is difficult to get good DTs these days and our goal of experiments didn't involve much DTs, hence much lesser chance for us to play with the gene.
Go and cross your HM to DTHM, that will improve the finnage.
Funny how we treat DT. If you look at DT on auction sites, it is rarely filled with posts. Not that many people sell DT. It's just not "hot" enough. But what you need to consider is....you need DT if you'd like to improve the finnage. So, you may not be able to sell it, but you need to keep it to improve your "other" lines, so that the "other" lines can be sold better. How ironic....at least that's how many other breeders have been treating DTs...
We personally love DT. Some of our best fish were DTs. However, it is difficult to get good DTs these days and our goal of experiments didn't involve much DTs, hence much lesser chance for us to play with the gene.
Thin giant or short fat one?
Interesting observation on our current HM giant lines. There are 2 types of giants, so it seems, despite they are half siblings.
The first line has very thick body, but surprisingly shorter finnage. The bulkiness of the body is good sign, but why would the finnage shorter? Note that both parents are all extremely lengthy finnage...This makes these guys look like fat & short giant.
The second one is the opposite. Body-wise isn't particularly thick. Sure, the body is long, longer and bigger than your standard HM, but not to the extreme. We would love them to be about 1.5x to 2x in terms of body thickness....Finnage-wise, they are long and excessive, what we expect of a giant. This second line seems to be thin-body giant, more like a giant on a diet.
This same observation is also noticeable on HMPK giants, but because their finnage is already short, a lot of people didn't really pay much attention to it. Look at some of the giants available, you'll notice that there are some HMPKs with extremely large body but somewhat the finnage is way too short !
Things seem to be different if you have half-giant HMPK or 75% giants HMPK. Many of them look quite balanced (we're discounting those giants mixed with long fin betta, some of them come out with longer-than-usual finnage).
What do you have on your stock?
The first line has very thick body, but surprisingly shorter finnage. The bulkiness of the body is good sign, but why would the finnage shorter? Note that both parents are all extremely lengthy finnage...This makes these guys look like fat & short giant.
The second one is the opposite. Body-wise isn't particularly thick. Sure, the body is long, longer and bigger than your standard HM, but not to the extreme. We would love them to be about 1.5x to 2x in terms of body thickness....Finnage-wise, they are long and excessive, what we expect of a giant. This second line seems to be thin-body giant, more like a giant on a diet.
This same observation is also noticeable on HMPK giants, but because their finnage is already short, a lot of people didn't really pay much attention to it. Look at some of the giants available, you'll notice that there are some HMPKs with extremely large body but somewhat the finnage is way too short !
Things seem to be different if you have half-giant HMPK or 75% giants HMPK. Many of them look quite balanced (we're discounting those giants mixed with long fin betta, some of them come out with longer-than-usual finnage).
What do you have on your stock?
Friday 19 June 2009
Some pix from last few days
Having cleaned up, sort of, the tanks, we took the opportunity to take some shots.
This one is an interesting one. He is one of the smaller spawn with a few melano marbles. He is a giant geno, but by the look of it he's only carrying the gene of 25%. What's fascinating about these melanos is watching how they turn their colour from a complete black melano to some patchy one. This one is the extreme version where he only has some dots left :)
This one is coming from old line of copper mixed with lavendar. Not surprisingly the colour comes up as multi with lots of copperish. Nice ray branching though, starting to feather.
Again coming from copper line, this one is copper giant geno crosses. He's the only survival one from the spawn unfortunately as the parents, particularly the female, were extremely large, hence a difficult spawning. The beauty of this boy is on his colouration, a mixture of gold and red intertwined throughout the body and fins, pretty consistently. His spread isn't bad, body is pretty thick, but the boy is very naughty and managed to had a good fight with another male, hence all the torns in his fins.
Finally, still admiring this boy, he's a very nice breeder-quality one...We've posted his pix when he was small till the size he's now, overall it's nice to see how they form and grow. Here are the pix again from small to big, just another flash back and waste of your bandwidth :)
As mentioned, any of these guys you're interested in, shoot us email ;)
This one is an interesting one. He is one of the smaller spawn with a few melano marbles. He is a giant geno, but by the look of it he's only carrying the gene of 25%. What's fascinating about these melanos is watching how they turn their colour from a complete black melano to some patchy one. This one is the extreme version where he only has some dots left :)
This one is coming from old line of copper mixed with lavendar. Not surprisingly the colour comes up as multi with lots of copperish. Nice ray branching though, starting to feather.
Again coming from copper line, this one is copper giant geno crosses. He's the only survival one from the spawn unfortunately as the parents, particularly the female, were extremely large, hence a difficult spawning. The beauty of this boy is on his colouration, a mixture of gold and red intertwined throughout the body and fins, pretty consistently. His spread isn't bad, body is pretty thick, but the boy is very naughty and managed to had a good fight with another male, hence all the torns in his fins.
Finally, still admiring this boy, he's a very nice breeder-quality one...We've posted his pix when he was small till the size he's now, overall it's nice to see how they form and grow. Here are the pix again from small to big, just another flash back and waste of your bandwidth :)
As mentioned, any of these guys you're interested in, shoot us email ;)
Thursday 18 June 2009
Large tank vs small tank for breeding bettas
This seems to be a topic commonly asked by new beginners, should you choose largish tank or the smaller ones if you intend to breed bettas?
The answer really boils down to your preference and somewhat the personality of your bettas. Some bettas dont care really what kind of tank you provide them, so long the water condition is good for breeding. Some bettas are very fussy, they get "lost" in big tanks, grew tired of chasing the female and ended up on a prolonged dating. Such dating will only turn out as successful spawn when the female is ready to accept the "invitation" from the male.
What you also need to consider is that breeding is a lot easier if done in smaller tank. Anything as big as 10" or 12" tank (about 20cm in length) will do. The advantage of using smaller tank is that once the eggs hatched, you don't have to get headache on feeding them and they will find foods much easier, hence contributing to faster growth on their part. Note that once upon a time, when they are about 3 weeks or 1 month old, you can (and must) move them to larger tank.
So, the suggestion is...start it on smaller tank and move them to larger one as they grow.
BTW, if you're breeding extensively large giants, say those 4+" HM ones, then you need double the size of the tank mentioned above. The large giants dont like small tanks. The small tanks are mostly applicable for HMPK (giant or otherwise) and standard HM bettas.
Happy breeding :)
The answer really boils down to your preference and somewhat the personality of your bettas. Some bettas dont care really what kind of tank you provide them, so long the water condition is good for breeding. Some bettas are very fussy, they get "lost" in big tanks, grew tired of chasing the female and ended up on a prolonged dating. Such dating will only turn out as successful spawn when the female is ready to accept the "invitation" from the male.
What you also need to consider is that breeding is a lot easier if done in smaller tank. Anything as big as 10" or 12" tank (about 20cm in length) will do. The advantage of using smaller tank is that once the eggs hatched, you don't have to get headache on feeding them and they will find foods much easier, hence contributing to faster growth on their part. Note that once upon a time, when they are about 3 weeks or 1 month old, you can (and must) move them to larger tank.
So, the suggestion is...start it on smaller tank and move them to larger one as they grow.
BTW, if you're breeding extensively large giants, say those 4+" HM ones, then you need double the size of the tank mentioned above. The large giants dont like small tanks. The small tanks are mostly applicable for HMPK (giant or otherwise) and standard HM bettas.
Happy breeding :)
Friday 12 June 2009
When to cross out your bettas?
This question comes up a couple of times already. You may have a good line going on for awhile and wondering whether you should or should not cross out. Typical risks of cross out include introduction of unwanted traits into your line, but not crossing out isn't helping either.
So, how do you know that it's the time to cross out?
We usually cross our lines out as soon as F2 but on average on F4. There are occassions when we cross them out as soon as F1, but that's not the norm.
These are some indications when we cross our lines out:
Lots of mistakes are done when people afraid of doing inbreeding. There is tendency of crossing the fish out right away. While that is true and good if you'd like to start a new line, it is devastating if you don't know the history of your fish. Remember what's seen on the surface isn't necessary the genes you're ended up getting. But if you're only chasing the fun of breeding, by all means, take the best 2 of any fish and get them dancing :)
In short, develop your line to the point you know you "nearly" there, and only cross out when you have to or when you know crossing it out will get your much closer there. Crossing out frequently is fun, so from time to time do it...
So, how do you know that it's the time to cross out?
We usually cross our lines out as soon as F2 but on average on F4. There are occassions when we cross them out as soon as F1, but that's not the norm.
These are some indications when we cross our lines out:
- the new introduced fish is fitting to the plan and carry good quality
- your current line is starting to show some bad traits or defects
- your lines are no longer "strong", e.g. they are easily sick
Lots of mistakes are done when people afraid of doing inbreeding. There is tendency of crossing the fish out right away. While that is true and good if you'd like to start a new line, it is devastating if you don't know the history of your fish. Remember what's seen on the surface isn't necessary the genes you're ended up getting. But if you're only chasing the fun of breeding, by all means, take the best 2 of any fish and get them dancing :)
In short, develop your line to the point you know you "nearly" there, and only cross out when you have to or when you know crossing it out will get your much closer there. Crossing out frequently is fun, so from time to time do it...
Wednesday 3 June 2009
Interested on this boy?
For those who've been wondering to purchase something from us, here you are....
He has thick rays, large & heavy volume finnage, and only about 3 months old. He's giant geno, and will definitely make a very good breeder. Sibling female available if interested.
Offer your price on email ;)
He has thick rays, large & heavy volume finnage, and only about 3 months old. He's giant geno, and will definitely make a very good breeder. Sibling female available if interested.
Offer your price on email ;)
Thursday 23 April 2009
Post easter betta sale
>> Update 29/06/2010. Please check our main blog entry on http://breedingsmybettas.blogspot.com for new fish offerings.
We're releasing some of our stock that are not on hold. If you're interested, contact us via email. Shipping $25 as usual.
Here are the availability:
>> updated 25 April
Additional pairs available, here samples for the batch. This is giant-geno, age 2 months, body is thick.
Cost: $20 per pair or $75 for 5 pairs
Dark pix just showing green/red and the white opaque males (only 2 opaques avail).
Another green/red male
Green boy
>> updated 4 May
Only very few males left, some females still avail. only 3 large giant females still avail. Price varies from $20 per pair to $60 per pair, email us.
>> updated 7 May
This boy has lots of potential as breeder. He's one of the few left, keeping some of the potentials till last ;) He has nice bulky body accompanied by thick finnage. On top of it he has a matching attitude. 2.5 months old. He's available for $50 with sibling or half-sibling female, your choice. Giant-geno of course.
For those who contacted us asking for pix of the melanos, here's one. Not the best pix but will do. He's avail with sibling melano female if you like to do your own experimentation or with one of his melano/black orchid marble for a bit of fun. There is a gold melano female avail for him as well.
We're releasing some of our stock that are not on hold. If you're interested, contact us via email. Shipping $25 as usual.
Here are the availability:
- $50-$60 per pair, giant-geno, HM, 2 months + 3 days old as of today, sample male is on this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1qrq1l3b0I
- each $100, large giant HM female, adult, 5-8 months, 2.5 inches to 3 inches, again sample picture on movie above. most are 8 rays if not 16 rays.
>> updated 25 April
Additional pairs available, here samples for the batch. This is giant-geno, age 2 months, body is thick.
Cost: $20 per pair or $75 for 5 pairs
Dark pix just showing green/red and the white opaque males (only 2 opaques avail).
Another green/red male
Green boy
>> updated 4 May
Only very few males left, some females still avail. only 3 large giant females still avail. Price varies from $20 per pair to $60 per pair, email us.
>> updated 7 May
This boy has lots of potential as breeder. He's one of the few left, keeping some of the potentials till last ;) He has nice bulky body accompanied by thick finnage. On top of it he has a matching attitude. 2.5 months old. He's available for $50 with sibling or half-sibling female, your choice. Giant-geno of course.
For those who contacted us asking for pix of the melanos, here's one. Not the best pix but will do. He's avail with sibling melano female if you like to do your own experimentation or with one of his melano/black orchid marble for a bit of fun. There is a gold melano female avail for him as well.
Comparing giant female
As promised, here are some pix comparing one of our giant female against a female and 2 males. Forgot to mention, she's the sibling of the giant boy in comparing our boys.
The giant female is about 8 months now. As you can see, she is a copper marble. She's not terribly the "fattest" in the lot, nor she was the biggest - we've given some of her siblings which are bigger and fatter than her before. She comes from majority 8 rays but somehow she only has 1 branching with 8 rays and the rest are 4 rays. Her size is 3 inches. She's still a virgin and there isn't any males in our stock can spawn her, so if you have any large enough males, perferably 4+ inches, then give us a yell...
Here is her comparison with a giant-geno HM female. This black orchid/marble female is 2 months old. She's very fat :) She has the size of standard HM female of the age of 3 or 4 months, so hopefully you get the idea of their comparison.
As you can see, the small female is about half length of the giant female, but pay attention to the body width/height...That giant female is extremely thick ;)
Now, here is a comparison of the female to a green/red HM male. This male has just shocked being placed there, so he's a bit sulky, but notice the size difference :)
Now finally, a comparison of the female to a flaring red HM male.
Anywho, admire the giant ;) Their size is extremely large. If only it is easier to find a match for them :( The sibling male of 3.5 inches length can't even handle this female...Hopefully we can find a good male for these ladies.
If you are interested on seeing how this female FIGHTS against the red BF male, here is the link to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1qrq1l3b0I. Watch it, it worths your time! The male is just awesome, but the female isn't about to let him bully her either :)
The giant female is about 8 months now. As you can see, she is a copper marble. She's not terribly the "fattest" in the lot, nor she was the biggest - we've given some of her siblings which are bigger and fatter than her before. She comes from majority 8 rays but somehow she only has 1 branching with 8 rays and the rest are 4 rays. Her size is 3 inches. She's still a virgin and there isn't any males in our stock can spawn her, so if you have any large enough males, perferably 4+ inches, then give us a yell...
Here is her comparison with a giant-geno HM female. This black orchid/marble female is 2 months old. She's very fat :) She has the size of standard HM female of the age of 3 or 4 months, so hopefully you get the idea of their comparison.
As you can see, the small female is about half length of the giant female, but pay attention to the body width/height...That giant female is extremely thick ;)
Now, here is a comparison of the female to a green/red HM male. This male has just shocked being placed there, so he's a bit sulky, but notice the size difference :)
Now finally, a comparison of the female to a flaring red HM male.
Anywho, admire the giant ;) Their size is extremely large. If only it is easier to find a match for them :( The sibling male of 3.5 inches length can't even handle this female...Hopefully we can find a good male for these ladies.
If you are interested on seeing how this female FIGHTS against the red BF male, here is the link to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1qrq1l3b0I. Watch it, it worths your time! The male is just awesome, but the female isn't about to let him bully her either :)
Sunday 19 April 2009
Poor man's solution to betta barrack
Here is the sample of separating and growing our juvies where 1 male is let roaming the bigger tank freely but the rest of the others are caged in cut-off transparant containers.
They have a good exercise for awhile until we then have to break it off by replacing the transparant cage with non transparant ones, such as cut-off milk bottles. This way, all of them can rest for sometime and then they'll get into the exercise mode again when we return back.
If you have small number of males, you can do this fairly easily while saving some of your electricity bill.
Word of caution. Watch out for those jumping males. Once a male jump off from their cage to the outside tank, you'll have very vicious fight which pretty much means at least 2 of your males will not be in their tip top form anymore.....
They have a good exercise for awhile until we then have to break it off by replacing the transparant cage with non transparant ones, such as cut-off milk bottles. This way, all of them can rest for sometime and then they'll get into the exercise mode again when we return back.
If you have small number of males, you can do this fairly easily while saving some of your electricity bill.
Word of caution. Watch out for those jumping males. Once a male jump off from their cage to the outside tank, you'll have very vicious fight which pretty much means at least 2 of your males will not be in their tip top form anymore.....
Thursday 16 April 2009
Producing fertile melano female, part I
Continuing our discussion about fertility in melano from the previous post. This time we have the chance to do another experimentation, perhaps in 2 months time anyway, of testing melano fertility.
What difference this time is the source of melano. Current line produces some melanos, despite parents only inherit melano gene indirectly from their ancestries. There are currently about 5 melano males, 2 melano females, and 2 steel blue lace females. Other siblings are multi colours, therefore it can be said that the majority of the spawn is fertile.
So, the question is whether the crossing of 2 melanos from the majority fertile F1 will yield to a fertile F2? We hope that this type of crossing to be slightly different from the typical melano spawns (most melanos are produced by crossing a melano male to either steel blue, blue, or green females that yield to all melano females in the spawn infertile).
It seems, even the melanos produced in this spawn have hint of black orchid or steel blue lace. Perhaps there is a chance after all to produce a fertile melano female. Fingers crossed....We'll continue this topic to Part II in about 2 months time, when they're ready to spawn.
What difference this time is the source of melano. Current line produces some melanos, despite parents only inherit melano gene indirectly from their ancestries. There are currently about 5 melano males, 2 melano females, and 2 steel blue lace females. Other siblings are multi colours, therefore it can be said that the majority of the spawn is fertile.
So, the question is whether the crossing of 2 melanos from the majority fertile F1 will yield to a fertile F2? We hope that this type of crossing to be slightly different from the typical melano spawns (most melanos are produced by crossing a melano male to either steel blue, blue, or green females that yield to all melano females in the spawn infertile).
It seems, even the melanos produced in this spawn have hint of black orchid or steel blue lace. Perhaps there is a chance after all to produce a fertile melano female. Fingers crossed....We'll continue this topic to Part II in about 2 months time, when they're ready to spawn.
Avoidance of bent dorsal
Another experiment we're running is to see whether forcing the bettas to the lower part of the tank would avoid them having bending dorsals. This only applies to those bettas that are known to be "free" bent dorsal due to inbreeding defects such as the broken rays.
HMs, particularly those with very long fins ones, are prone to bent dorsal. This is increasingly to be true on some of our lines, particularly the copper line where their dorsal would be excessively high and large - and heavy - that regular coming to the water surface seems to force the dorsal to bend.
So, what we do instead is to card the upper half of the tank such that the bettas have no choice but to flare on the bottom half. This way, they will only come to water surface for making bubbles and breathing, but a full flaring activity happens far away from the surface.
Any tricks you've got to improve bettas dorsal? Some other breeders said that the less amount of exercises they do, the better their dorsal. We don't find that to be true since some bettas would have tendency to spend the rest of their lives near the water surface, perhaps contemplating of their boredom in the tank....hence still ended up with bent dorsal.
HMs, particularly those with very long fins ones, are prone to bent dorsal. This is increasingly to be true on some of our lines, particularly the copper line where their dorsal would be excessively high and large - and heavy - that regular coming to the water surface seems to force the dorsal to bend.
So, what we do instead is to card the upper half of the tank such that the bettas have no choice but to flare on the bottom half. This way, they will only come to water surface for making bubbles and breathing, but a full flaring activity happens far away from the surface.
Any tricks you've got to improve bettas dorsal? Some other breeders said that the less amount of exercises they do, the better their dorsal. We don't find that to be true since some bettas would have tendency to spend the rest of their lives near the water surface, perhaps contemplating of their boredom in the tank....hence still ended up with bent dorsal.
Distribution of giant genes
Many people are wondering how the giant genes really distributed in bettas. Would crossing *any* giants produce a giant? Continuing from the baking lessons, let's explore one theory that may answer this.
First of all, let us put some assumptions. Many agree that giant "gene" is probably made up of multiple genes and no one knows for certain how or what these genes are - if they knew, that wouldn't much fun, would it?. Furthermore, let's take the definition of giant size as mentioned in the baking lessons to be applicable here - different breeders have different definitions of giant size.
For illustration purposes, let us consider 2 scenarios here.
Crossing 100% giant male to 100% giant female
It is known that if you have a pair of 100% giant - e.g. if HMPK then they are 3+ inches in length, if HM then they are close to the infamous 7" - then you will only get small proportion to be true giant in your F1. This proportion varies greatly between lines, but majority of breeders agree that it is between 3% to 10% of your spawn. What it means, if you have a spawn of 100 fry from a 3+" giant pair, chances you will only get 3 to 10 fry turning up to be 3+". So, you can see why it's so troublesome to work on giants.
The rest of the spawn, usually is a mixture of half-giant (50% giant), 75% giant, and even 25% giants which are just slightly larger than your typical bettas.
Now suppose that you like to continue the line to F2 and F3. What you need to do is:
Crossing 100% giant male to standard betta
So, suppose you like to cross your 3" giant HMPK to a standard HMPK for instance. On F1 you will find that majority of your fry would be standard HMPK size, 25% giant size, and upto half-giant. This means, the biggest of your spawn can only be about 2.3" in length max. What you are further forgetting is that the statistics is still the same, there is only 3% to 10% of the fry to be half-giant. The rest is nothing more than 25% giant in size. Remember that the fry only inherit half of the genes from each of their parents !
Now, suppose that you choose very carefully and believe that one of the F1 to be half-giant, fingers crossed, then you cross it to the parent 3" giant. F2 statistics is not improving greatly. You still will only get about 3%-10% of the F2 to be 75% giants. The rest are merely half-giant and 25% giants. So, fingers crossed again, if you have a large spawn of 100+ fish, then you may see those 75% giants, otherwise you better off betting on lotto and hope to win cause majority of your fry would be just half-giants.
Lessons learnt?
It's a tough and hard to work on giants at the moment, even in Thailand. They are well-known to be capable of mass-producing bettas and yet there are only sporadic introduction of giants available. Perhaps in the next 3-5 years time we will see giants everywhere, just like we are seeing HMs and HMPKs everywhere today. In the meantime, the fun is on us to produce and experiment on different techniques to produce the "nice" giant line. Remember, everyone is pretty much on par and on the same level of playing field here ;) You may very well, with enough luck and diligent, produce the holy grail of giants :)
First of all, let us put some assumptions. Many agree that giant "gene" is probably made up of multiple genes and no one knows for certain how or what these genes are - if they knew, that wouldn't much fun, would it?. Furthermore, let's take the definition of giant size as mentioned in the baking lessons to be applicable here - different breeders have different definitions of giant size.
For illustration purposes, let us consider 2 scenarios here.
Crossing 100% giant male to 100% giant female
It is known that if you have a pair of 100% giant - e.g. if HMPK then they are 3+ inches in length, if HM then they are close to the infamous 7" - then you will only get small proportion to be true giant in your F1. This proportion varies greatly between lines, but majority of breeders agree that it is between 3% to 10% of your spawn. What it means, if you have a spawn of 100 fry from a 3+" giant pair, chances you will only get 3 to 10 fry turning up to be 3+". So, you can see why it's so troublesome to work on giants.
The rest of the spawn, usually is a mixture of half-giant (50% giant), 75% giant, and even 25% giants which are just slightly larger than your typical bettas.
Now suppose that you like to continue the line to F2 and F3. What you need to do is:
- pray that you've done enough spawning such that you have your chance bigger than the dimmed 3%-10% ! Cross the parents 2x, 3x, heck 10x if necessary, get as much juice out of them and see if you hit the jackpot on getting 1 or 2 of their fry to be 100% giant
- have a good eye to identify which one of those buggers fit into 100% giant size. Remember, you need to choose them when they are young, and chances are they are not even big enough to be categorized as 100% giants. Most 100% giants are identifiable when they are about 4 to 6 months old - the longer time you wait, the more certain you are
- have lots of spare tanks for the buggers, at least to last for 6 months, otherwise you don't know which one of them is your lucky winner
Crossing 100% giant male to standard betta
So, suppose you like to cross your 3" giant HMPK to a standard HMPK for instance. On F1 you will find that majority of your fry would be standard HMPK size, 25% giant size, and upto half-giant. This means, the biggest of your spawn can only be about 2.3" in length max. What you are further forgetting is that the statistics is still the same, there is only 3% to 10% of the fry to be half-giant. The rest is nothing more than 25% giant in size. Remember that the fry only inherit half of the genes from each of their parents !
Now, suppose that you choose very carefully and believe that one of the F1 to be half-giant, fingers crossed, then you cross it to the parent 3" giant. F2 statistics is not improving greatly. You still will only get about 3%-10% of the F2 to be 75% giants. The rest are merely half-giant and 25% giants. So, fingers crossed again, if you have a large spawn of 100+ fish, then you may see those 75% giants, otherwise you better off betting on lotto and hope to win cause majority of your fry would be just half-giants.
Lessons learnt?
It's a tough and hard to work on giants at the moment, even in Thailand. They are well-known to be capable of mass-producing bettas and yet there are only sporadic introduction of giants available. Perhaps in the next 3-5 years time we will see giants everywhere, just like we are seeing HMs and HMPKs everywhere today. In the meantime, the fun is on us to produce and experiment on different techniques to produce the "nice" giant line. Remember, everyone is pretty much on par and on the same level of playing field here ;) You may very well, with enough luck and diligent, produce the holy grail of giants :)
Wednesday 15 April 2009
Broken rays, defect in bettas?
There seems to be 2 cases of broken rays happening in bettas as explained soon. We noticed this on 2 unrelated spawns. It doesn't seem to be genetic but rather environmental. Could this be the defect of inbreedings in giants?
Here is a sample of broken rays, typically happening on the caudal fin.
On one occasion, we noticed that the male - yes this broken rays typically happening on males - was overactive, which causes his caudal to bent too sudden and therefore break them off. This is pretty much similar if you try to swing your hand too sudden and you either sustain injury to your muscles or even break that bone if it hits something harder than your bone.
This type of broken rays is usually quite evenly distributed, forming a half circle on the caudal, which indicates that all of the rays protruding from the caudal are pretty much screwed.
On another occasion, we noticed that not only the caudal is experiencing the broken rays, other fins such as dorsal and anal are experiencing the same. This indicates that either it is caused by genetic or the environment. In our case, there is only 1 single male of the whole spawn experienced this, hence safely to assume that it is environmental. Another interesting thing about it, since it is "evenly distributed" to all fins, this brokenness forms a pattern. Analogy to this would be the pattern formed from tree trunk due to the growth of the tree. Over the time/years, tree forms circles in its trunk/girth. Water condition must have differ too greatly affecting the growth of the fins. The above example image seems to be of this 2nd type.
The troublesome concept of this broken rays is that we seems to experience this more on giant HMs rather than the standard HMs. The question is whether it is more prominant in giants compared to standard HM. One theory goes by saying that the weight of caudal fins is so great in giants - e.g. too heavy due to their size/thickness.
Time to monitor them and experiment on different water flow. Would stronger current affect this as well? It is known that strong currents can affect bend dorsal rays but is it strong enough to even bend/break rays?
Here is a sample of broken rays, typically happening on the caudal fin.
On one occasion, we noticed that the male - yes this broken rays typically happening on males - was overactive, which causes his caudal to bent too sudden and therefore break them off. This is pretty much similar if you try to swing your hand too sudden and you either sustain injury to your muscles or even break that bone if it hits something harder than your bone.
This type of broken rays is usually quite evenly distributed, forming a half circle on the caudal, which indicates that all of the rays protruding from the caudal are pretty much screwed.
On another occasion, we noticed that not only the caudal is experiencing the broken rays, other fins such as dorsal and anal are experiencing the same. This indicates that either it is caused by genetic or the environment. In our case, there is only 1 single male of the whole spawn experienced this, hence safely to assume that it is environmental. Another interesting thing about it, since it is "evenly distributed" to all fins, this brokenness forms a pattern. Analogy to this would be the pattern formed from tree trunk due to the growth of the tree. Over the time/years, tree forms circles in its trunk/girth. Water condition must have differ too greatly affecting the growth of the fins. The above example image seems to be of this 2nd type.
The troublesome concept of this broken rays is that we seems to experience this more on giant HMs rather than the standard HMs. The question is whether it is more prominant in giants compared to standard HM. One theory goes by saying that the weight of caudal fins is so great in giants - e.g. too heavy due to their size/thickness.
Time to monitor them and experiment on different water flow. Would stronger current affect this as well? It is known that strong currents can affect bend dorsal rays but is it strong enough to even bend/break rays?
Tuesday 14 April 2009
Change Windows 7 background!
For some of you who are into techie stuff, get it working. We want to see if you can change the windows 7 background which currently features a blue/red VT to other betta pictures !!
If you're good on doing photoshop etc, get it cracking. We'll supply you with some pix :)
Here's what it looks like now.
C'mon, surely someone can do it. The background can be used for any operating systems as well, not necessarily Windows.
If you're good on doing photoshop etc, get it cracking. We'll supply you with some pix :)
Here's what it looks like now.
C'mon, surely someone can do it. The background can be used for any operating systems as well, not necessarily Windows.
Overactive and super aggressive
One of the best moments in bettas is when they are just juvies. Lots of things to enjoy. Here are 2 movies of them, you'll sure appreciate their energy and ego :)
These guys are 2 days jarred, and by the look of it, they'll be bringing a bunch of happiness to those who watch them (and breed them and care for them...). Not having much of the time to take all their movies, but majority of them are like the crazy boys here...
We are always amazed on the youngsters, particularly those who are just about to sprout. 7-15 weeks old are the best moments to see this in action. So, for those who are not into breeding yet, get on the act or you'll miss a lot of this action! :)
Apologies to those wanting to see the melano ones. They're not in the movies for now. They are so dark, we decided to take their movies when we can rearrange the lightings, perhaps next time...
Here's the 2 boys. Reminding us of "Kill Bill" movie ;) The right hand boy is the one pictured on previous post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlJEUXmfJk
Now here's another one. A true assassin against a confused marble (also check his pic from prev post). Don't ask whatever happened to his jaw, apparently he doesn't feel a thing at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrnOed36jE
The movies are a lot longer but the aggression is pretty much the same...They can go on for a good hour if not stopped.
Tips for those who are looking for breeders. These are the kind of betta attitudes that you should be looking into, if you'd like to have a strong healthy line. Unfortunately you can only see this on movie, not on static pictures.
As someone said "There is a show off, and there is a crazy ass" :)
These guys are 2 days jarred, and by the look of it, they'll be bringing a bunch of happiness to those who watch them (and breed them and care for them...). Not having much of the time to take all their movies, but majority of them are like the crazy boys here...
We are always amazed on the youngsters, particularly those who are just about to sprout. 7-15 weeks old are the best moments to see this in action. So, for those who are not into breeding yet, get on the act or you'll miss a lot of this action! :)
Apologies to those wanting to see the melano ones. They're not in the movies for now. They are so dark, we decided to take their movies when we can rearrange the lightings, perhaps next time...
Here's the 2 boys. Reminding us of "Kill Bill" movie ;) The right hand boy is the one pictured on previous post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlJEUXmfJk
Now here's another one. A true assassin against a confused marble (also check his pic from prev post). Don't ask whatever happened to his jaw, apparently he doesn't feel a thing at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrnOed36jE
The movies are a lot longer but the aggression is pretty much the same...They can go on for a good hour if not stopped.
Tips for those who are looking for breeders. These are the kind of betta attitudes that you should be looking into, if you'd like to have a strong healthy line. Unfortunately you can only see this on movie, not on static pictures.
As someone said "There is a show off, and there is a crazy ass" :)
Monday 13 April 2009
Marble and multi boys
Another 2 shoots of the new juvies. Finally they're catching up with their age ;) At 7 weeks old, 2 days separated, they manage to flare beautifully. Very active in the tank, making it all too difficult to take pictures.
While the previous melanos we took with flash, this time we're not using flash. Lighting isn't helping much but nevertheless they're quite pretty.
This multi boy moves so fast causing all the worms, gunks, debris fly all over the place :)
Marble boy, perhaps of blue lace. Only 1 so far identified, could be just a one-off colour.
While the previous melanos we took with flash, this time we're not using flash. Lighting isn't helping much but nevertheless they're quite pretty.
This multi boy moves so fast causing all the worms, gunks, debris fly all over the place :)
Marble boy, perhaps of blue lace. Only 1 so far identified, could be just a one-off colour.
Holiday and feeding bettas
Suppose you'd like to have a month long break - holiday, work, away, etc - and no one is around to feed your bettas, what would you do? The easiest way would be to find someone volunteering to take care of them, but there are times when either letting people into your home isn't the option or sending the buggers are too cumbersome, so here are few ideas.
Fry
If you have fry of less than a month old, then tough luck. We can't figure out a better way to feed them except by using bbs and you need to prepare for the bbs every single day. Vinegar eels don't help, too thin and not sufficient nutrient. If you're lucky to live in warm climate then you may just okay to put them outside, with lots of plants and mozzies (this is applicable to adult bettas too!).
One alternative that we have never tried is to use automatic feeder, good quality one, but instead of putting pellets in there, you put crushed pellets. Small fry eat small pellets, bigger ones will eat larger pellets, everybody is happy. If you noticed that your water goes foul quicker, then keeping a snail can help to clean up the tank.
If you have large tank and you don't mind a bit of algae, putting rottifiers may last your fry for sometime. Just make sure you don't get dragonfly egg in there, or else you'll be seeing a very empty tank when you return from your break :)
Juvies
If you only have small juvies of say 1 month old, chances they are ready to pick on live worms, hence you can try to put X amount of worms in their tank and if you calculate it properly, the worms could last for a good 2+ weeks. There are some tricks on this of course. First of all, once juvies started to eat worm, you'll be surprise on how fast they consume the worms. For instance, our 100+ juvies can consume a good 100ml worms in 3 or 4 days time. If you have smaller number of juvies, then that kind of amount of worms can last the holiday.
One thing that you have to be aware is that you *can't* just put lots of worms in a tank, they'll die very quickly. They need aeration, a strong one. Also, you need to make sure the tank is large enough, say one of those 100+L tank (4' would be good). If you don't have such a large tank, then you need to split your juvies to smaller tanks and apply the same technique below.
Another thing is that worms can't be placed in constant warm water, the warmer the water, the more active they are and hence the faster they die. Notice how fast your water foul if you don't listen ;)
For the temperature control, we have been using electrical timer so that the heater is turned on for 15 mins for every 2 hours. This causes the water temperature to be slightly lower, perhaps in the lower 20s C, enough to keep the juvies happy and the worms not getting into panic mode. Put the heater near aeration output, it'll distribute the heat to the rest of the tank faster.
If you use pellets, then you can make use of automatic feeder. We found it was difficult to get the right frequency/amount for the pellets. Remember that in the early days of your juvies, you may be okay to feed them a little, since they're still small. But when 1 or 2 weeks has passed, they get hungrier all the time and therefore you need to take this into account. Automatic feeder is difficult to be adjusted for this reason, hence you may get some skinny and malnutrient bettas when you get back from your break.
On the last week of the break, if there isn't sufficient amount of foods available - or nothing left at all - then your bettas will fight and start cannibalizing their weaker/younger ones. You'll be lucky when you returned they are simply skinny, sometimes you'd find majority are sick, dying, etc.
Note that you can't repay back the missing foods. Starvation will cause your juvie to stunned and once they're stunned, there is no way for you to make them un-stunned. So, keep your feeding frequency regular, otherwise you may not get the quality you want.
Adult Males
Adult males are more difficult to take care of. Simply because they are jarred into their individual tanks. With the appropriate measurement of worms, you may be able to keep them alive for a good 1 week, and then you can only hope that they will not die of starvation for the remaining weeks. Alternatively, buy lots of automatic-feeders and accustom them to pellets.
A single male in a 12" tank - 20L - with sufficient worms should last him well for 2 or 3 weeks. Males are not terribly interested in foods. However, this means you need to get appropriate tanks, you can't just keep him in the beanie box since the size of the box is way too small.
Adult Females
Best way would be to either put them into large tank and feed live worms, just like juvies - knowing that they'll eat twice as fast as the juvies - or get an automatic feeder. Feeder would be simpler for females, they are usually not really fussy as to what they eat. Unlike the juvies, adult females eat "constant" amount of pellets, hence the feeder is good enough. Lack of foods will make them thinner, but at least they're still alive and well when you return back.
We will be experimenting with all of the above to see how long the worms survive in our tanks or the frequency needed for the pellets. It might come handy when we're on the break ;)
Fry
If you have fry of less than a month old, then tough luck. We can't figure out a better way to feed them except by using bbs and you need to prepare for the bbs every single day. Vinegar eels don't help, too thin and not sufficient nutrient. If you're lucky to live in warm climate then you may just okay to put them outside, with lots of plants and mozzies (this is applicable to adult bettas too!).
One alternative that we have never tried is to use automatic feeder, good quality one, but instead of putting pellets in there, you put crushed pellets. Small fry eat small pellets, bigger ones will eat larger pellets, everybody is happy. If you noticed that your water goes foul quicker, then keeping a snail can help to clean up the tank.
If you have large tank and you don't mind a bit of algae, putting rottifiers may last your fry for sometime. Just make sure you don't get dragonfly egg in there, or else you'll be seeing a very empty tank when you return from your break :)
Juvies
If you only have small juvies of say 1 month old, chances they are ready to pick on live worms, hence you can try to put X amount of worms in their tank and if you calculate it properly, the worms could last for a good 2+ weeks. There are some tricks on this of course. First of all, once juvies started to eat worm, you'll be surprise on how fast they consume the worms. For instance, our 100+ juvies can consume a good 100ml worms in 3 or 4 days time. If you have smaller number of juvies, then that kind of amount of worms can last the holiday.
One thing that you have to be aware is that you *can't* just put lots of worms in a tank, they'll die very quickly. They need aeration, a strong one. Also, you need to make sure the tank is large enough, say one of those 100+L tank (4' would be good). If you don't have such a large tank, then you need to split your juvies to smaller tanks and apply the same technique below.
Another thing is that worms can't be placed in constant warm water, the warmer the water, the more active they are and hence the faster they die. Notice how fast your water foul if you don't listen ;)
For the temperature control, we have been using electrical timer so that the heater is turned on for 15 mins for every 2 hours. This causes the water temperature to be slightly lower, perhaps in the lower 20s C, enough to keep the juvies happy and the worms not getting into panic mode. Put the heater near aeration output, it'll distribute the heat to the rest of the tank faster.
If you use pellets, then you can make use of automatic feeder. We found it was difficult to get the right frequency/amount for the pellets. Remember that in the early days of your juvies, you may be okay to feed them a little, since they're still small. But when 1 or 2 weeks has passed, they get hungrier all the time and therefore you need to take this into account. Automatic feeder is difficult to be adjusted for this reason, hence you may get some skinny and malnutrient bettas when you get back from your break.
On the last week of the break, if there isn't sufficient amount of foods available - or nothing left at all - then your bettas will fight and start cannibalizing their weaker/younger ones. You'll be lucky when you returned they are simply skinny, sometimes you'd find majority are sick, dying, etc.
Note that you can't repay back the missing foods. Starvation will cause your juvie to stunned and once they're stunned, there is no way for you to make them un-stunned. So, keep your feeding frequency regular, otherwise you may not get the quality you want.
Adult Males
Adult males are more difficult to take care of. Simply because they are jarred into their individual tanks. With the appropriate measurement of worms, you may be able to keep them alive for a good 1 week, and then you can only hope that they will not die of starvation for the remaining weeks. Alternatively, buy lots of automatic-feeders and accustom them to pellets.
A single male in a 12" tank - 20L - with sufficient worms should last him well for 2 or 3 weeks. Males are not terribly interested in foods. However, this means you need to get appropriate tanks, you can't just keep him in the beanie box since the size of the box is way too small.
Adult Females
Best way would be to either put them into large tank and feed live worms, just like juvies - knowing that they'll eat twice as fast as the juvies - or get an automatic feeder. Feeder would be simpler for females, they are usually not really fussy as to what they eat. Unlike the juvies, adult females eat "constant" amount of pellets, hence the feeder is good enough. Lack of foods will make them thinner, but at least they're still alive and well when you return back.
We will be experimenting with all of the above to see how long the worms survive in our tanks or the frequency needed for the pellets. It might come handy when we're on the break ;)
Sunday 12 April 2009
Upcoming melanos
Surprise that we've got melano in the spawn, about 5 of them or so. Both parents must have had melano gene (female was carrying melano, but male wasn't confirmed).
These 2 are the sample. Caudal spread isn't great yet, but they'll be HM very soon, perhaps in 2 weeks time after proper exercises and growth. They are just 1 day jarred.
This one looks like an HMPK, but perhaps because he's smaller than the other one. We shall see. Very dark colouration. He loves to run around the tank, funny little fella.
The aggressive one, he's steel-mask melano. He could flare for ages.
Will take more pictures later, or even upload the movies. Nice to know they are very active and aggressive, looking forward to their development in a month time :)
These 2 are the sample. Caudal spread isn't great yet, but they'll be HM very soon, perhaps in 2 weeks time after proper exercises and growth. They are just 1 day jarred.
This one looks like an HMPK, but perhaps because he's smaller than the other one. We shall see. Very dark colouration. He loves to run around the tank, funny little fella.
The aggressive one, he's steel-mask melano. He could flare for ages.
Will take more pictures later, or even upload the movies. Nice to know they are very active and aggressive, looking forward to their development in a month time :)
Friday 10 April 2009
Tips on achieving your betta goal
What would you do when you achieve that "goal" of yours in bettas? Say you want to get the "perfect" form for your line, and one day you've got what you want. What will you do next?
In our case for instance, in the old days we've been wanting to get a line that produces majority HMs, with wide anal, large caudal, and strong dorsal. This is easily done on traditional coloured lines such as red, green or blue. In fact, these days, you don't even need to start from scratch anymore. There are plenty breeders on sale for you to start it off, hence instead of waiting for F3 or F4 to get what you want, you'll get them right away on F1. Now, that spoiling all the fun, but for the impatience, that's heaven :)
Other goals work out pretty much the same. Suppose you want a short anal, balanced with the length of caudal. That's easily achieved as well in at least F4 of your spawn. This assumes 1 single thing, the seed is good. If your seed is not good, then you're looking at a lot longer timing than that!
Don't try to mix your goals though. Chasing different goals will just make you tired, resulting in you not achieving any of them. For instance, you may want to shorten that anal fins and yet wanting to improve the colour as well - perhaps remove that black scales. Now, that's too much. Removing black scales alone would require you to work for X number of generations. It would be easier if you work on one goal first, then once that's achieved, cross it out to another line and improve the 2nd goal, and finally cross them back into the original spawn. Whoala, you'll get both goals you wanted so much. What does that mean? You need to maintain multiple lines!
Stop dreaming, if you want to achieve your goal, you *must* maintain multiple lines. You need to have full control of the genetics of your fish. Introducing outside genes into an "instable" gene pool is not going to help you achieve what you want. This is the main reason why it is so difficult to average joe to produce good line ;)
Getting back to the topic. This is the main reason why working on giants, particularly HM, poses so much challenges. Everything is instable. Isn't it much fun? :)
Let's see what's the challenges:
We are still working (and perfecting) the technique to keep us focus on what we're trying to achieve. So we're listing some of them here, this may help you as well.
On another hand, it's good to know, when many of us got too much stress on not being able to achieve that darn goal, at least we can get back to the traditional colours and be very happy to achieve some nice bettas in F1 or F2 ;) Somebody else has done the hard work for us, provided we're willing to pay for the good price of the fish...
Until then, happy experimenting!
In our case for instance, in the old days we've been wanting to get a line that produces majority HMs, with wide anal, large caudal, and strong dorsal. This is easily done on traditional coloured lines such as red, green or blue. In fact, these days, you don't even need to start from scratch anymore. There are plenty breeders on sale for you to start it off, hence instead of waiting for F3 or F4 to get what you want, you'll get them right away on F1. Now, that spoiling all the fun, but for the impatience, that's heaven :)
Other goals work out pretty much the same. Suppose you want a short anal, balanced with the length of caudal. That's easily achieved as well in at least F4 of your spawn. This assumes 1 single thing, the seed is good. If your seed is not good, then you're looking at a lot longer timing than that!
Don't try to mix your goals though. Chasing different goals will just make you tired, resulting in you not achieving any of them. For instance, you may want to shorten that anal fins and yet wanting to improve the colour as well - perhaps remove that black scales. Now, that's too much. Removing black scales alone would require you to work for X number of generations. It would be easier if you work on one goal first, then once that's achieved, cross it out to another line and improve the 2nd goal, and finally cross them back into the original spawn. Whoala, you'll get both goals you wanted so much. What does that mean? You need to maintain multiple lines!
Stop dreaming, if you want to achieve your goal, you *must* maintain multiple lines. You need to have full control of the genetics of your fish. Introducing outside genes into an "instable" gene pool is not going to help you achieve what you want. This is the main reason why it is so difficult to average joe to produce good line ;)
Getting back to the topic. This is the main reason why working on giants, particularly HM, poses so much challenges. Everything is instable. Isn't it much fun? :)
Let's see what's the challenges:
- instable HM - not producing HM in majority, or throwing HMPKs when you dont want it ;)
- instable giant - not producing good giants in the spawn
- instable colour - this is not big deal for us, as we don't focus on colours
- instable form - defect here and there, particularly when the giant gene magnifies everything, every single fault!
We are still working (and perfecting) the technique to keep us focus on what we're trying to achieve. So we're listing some of them here, this may help you as well.
- focus on a single goal - doh, this was mentioned already! but it's worth repeating it, as it sounds so simple and yet many of us got carried away when opportunities strike. Say you want to shorten the anal, would you choose the short anal male on your spawn despite he is an SD? or would you choose the longer anal one with an OHM form? Or you choose one over the other because of other qualities such as colour, form, ray splitting, etc? See how easily you derail from your goal??
- maintain 2 or 3 lines from the original parents - each line *must* be unique and trying to achieve *different* objective! Say you try to shorten the anal and would like to have a nice perfect short-anal HM. You need to at least keep 1st line that has consistently produce OHM, you gonna need that caudal later! (Let's call this line X). And also, you need your 2nd line to work on that anal fin (call this line Y). Once you have achieved a good line Y, time to cross it to line X. From that point, you should work for another 2 generations at least to get the result you want, a short anal with perfect OHM caudal ;) The more goals you have, the more concurrent lines you need to maintain. Soon enough, you'll have *lots* of lines easily!
- Keep a good eye on what's available out there - you're going to need this. Sooner or later, you will stumble on defects on your line due to inbreeding. This can only be rectified if you cross your line to external lines. Now, this is not advisable. Instead, what you should do is to have yet-a-set-of-parallel-lines. Basically you need to have a duplicate backup copies of your current lines, but being done on different parent fish! If you keep, say, 3 lines from a set of 2 pairs parent fish, you need to get totally different parents and replicate that 3 lines so that at the 5th or 6th generations you can outcross them. This way, you fully control your fish genetic pool. See how complicated this become?
- Don't be afraid to experiment - you don't know how to achieve the goal, why not experiment and see what it brings? You need to document your experiment, or else, with all of those lines above, god knows whatever happened to your "previous" experiments.
On another hand, it's good to know, when many of us got too much stress on not being able to achieve that darn goal, at least we can get back to the traditional colours and be very happy to achieve some nice bettas in F1 or F2 ;) Somebody else has done the hard work for us, provided we're willing to pay for the good price of the fish...
Until then, happy experimenting!
Thursday 9 April 2009
Feeding experiments
One of experimentations that we've been doing is to feed the fish on different ways. It has been known that giant needs lots of food, but what does that really mean? Some considered feeding once everyday to be "lots" already, others feed them 2 or 3 times per day. What about feeding them once every couple of days? Sure that's regular, but not terribly lots...
On one tank, we've got the contenders having abundance of live blackworms, they don't have to worry about food. These guys surprisingly grow slower compared to the 2nd experimentation. The reason why they grow slower is perhaps attributed to "it's plenty of foods around, no need to worry of eating, hence no urges to keep eating". They are healthy with no apparent diseases, belly not terribly large, aggression isn't showing.
On another tank, we feed them 3 or 4 times a day, whenever we're around. Each feeding makes their belly nearly blowing up. These guys are larger than the 1st experiment. Some even double the size! They are much more active and aggressive. 1 or 2 of them are bloating right after meals, indicating that they ate excessively - the symptoms don't last long of course, once they're hungry again they'd hunt for more food. Not much nipping happens between the fish, indicating that their aggression was only towards foods. Females are terribly bouncy, with very apparent eggs deposit.
On a separate tank, we feed them once a day. Very similar to the previous tank, they're active and always hungry. Scouring the tank for foods, flaring, and terribly happy whenever they see us - but disappointed since we fed the next tank rather than them.
It seems that experiment #2 and #3 are suitable for giants where their growth needs to be supported with frequent feedings. However, caution needs to be practiced. Once they are larger, say 3 or 4 months, the frequency of feedings needs to be reduced. Otherwise they have the tendency of becoming "obese". Obesity in bettas, though mostly not showing up in males, can be easily noticed in females. Nothing wrong with obese bettas, they breed as usual etc. However, we believe that obesity reduce their lifespan. Perhaps along with the theory "eat more and die faster". Basically confirming that their metabolisms are higher with the high intake of foods and lack of exercises.
It is interesting that the older they get, the lesser they need feeding. While females want foods every day they see you, males can be fed once every other day. They worry about their manhood rather than the foods. So long you give them good exercises, they will simply focus on the guy next door.
On one tank, we've got the contenders having abundance of live blackworms, they don't have to worry about food. These guys surprisingly grow slower compared to the 2nd experimentation. The reason why they grow slower is perhaps attributed to "it's plenty of foods around, no need to worry of eating, hence no urges to keep eating". They are healthy with no apparent diseases, belly not terribly large, aggression isn't showing.
On another tank, we feed them 3 or 4 times a day, whenever we're around. Each feeding makes their belly nearly blowing up. These guys are larger than the 1st experiment. Some even double the size! They are much more active and aggressive. 1 or 2 of them are bloating right after meals, indicating that they ate excessively - the symptoms don't last long of course, once they're hungry again they'd hunt for more food. Not much nipping happens between the fish, indicating that their aggression was only towards foods. Females are terribly bouncy, with very apparent eggs deposit.
On a separate tank, we feed them once a day. Very similar to the previous tank, they're active and always hungry. Scouring the tank for foods, flaring, and terribly happy whenever they see us - but disappointed since we fed the next tank rather than them.
It seems that experiment #2 and #3 are suitable for giants where their growth needs to be supported with frequent feedings. However, caution needs to be practiced. Once they are larger, say 3 or 4 months, the frequency of feedings needs to be reduced. Otherwise they have the tendency of becoming "obese". Obesity in bettas, though mostly not showing up in males, can be easily noticed in females. Nothing wrong with obese bettas, they breed as usual etc. However, we believe that obesity reduce their lifespan. Perhaps along with the theory "eat more and die faster". Basically confirming that their metabolisms are higher with the high intake of foods and lack of exercises.
It is interesting that the older they get, the lesser they need feeding. While females want foods every day they see you, males can be fed once every other day. They worry about their manhood rather than the foods. So long you give them good exercises, they will simply focus on the guy next door.
Friday 3 April 2009
Update on the green + copper
Just thought to post their pictures coming from the green & copper spawn. About 100+ of them there. Their growth is somewhat slower than other giants, perhaps slower 1 or 2 weeks, but other than that they seem to be bulky and very promising.
Body is thick, caudal points outward, but anal seems to be shorter than other long fins. Again, this is perhaps because we are analyzing them too early. Wait for another 1 or 2 weeks, we should see them starting to sprout.
Note that both their parents are long fin, though male carries short fin, hence there is that tendency of getting shorter fins. Majority should be long fin and this will be interesting to see what the outcome is going to be.
Some are starting to have red coloured caudal, giving indication that maybe we will get a number of them to be copper red. Some golden sheen is showing off as well, metallic is in the gene :)
Body is thick, caudal points outward, but anal seems to be shorter than other long fins. Again, this is perhaps because we are analyzing them too early. Wait for another 1 or 2 weeks, we should see them starting to sprout.
Note that both their parents are long fin, though male carries short fin, hence there is that tendency of getting shorter fins. Majority should be long fin and this will be interesting to see what the outcome is going to be.
Some are starting to have red coloured caudal, giving indication that maybe we will get a number of them to be copper red. Some golden sheen is showing off as well, metallic is in the gene :)
Red HMF giant geno
This female is the best looking, in terms of rays splitting, out of the whole bunch. The caudal is started to split and form feather due to the heavy branching. It makes the caudal bending, just not enough space for the branchings, perhaps....
Here her pix. She doesn't want to pose beautifully nor we have any time to wait for her to pose, but this pix should suffice.
Here is a zoom of her tail.
On quick count, it seems she's branching 32 rays if not more (64??), with average ray branchings to be 16 and near the end of caudal to be 8.
Note that none of her siblings are DT, hence her large caudal is purely because she branches too much.
Any expression of interest for her? Let us know. She's avail if you're interested. We figured, it'll be at least 2 months before we start another tank for spawning....
Here her pix. She doesn't want to pose beautifully nor we have any time to wait for her to pose, but this pix should suffice.
Here is a zoom of her tail.
On quick count, it seems she's branching 32 rays if not more (64??), with average ray branchings to be 16 and near the end of caudal to be 8.
Note that none of her siblings are DT, hence her large caudal is purely because she branches too much.
Any expression of interest for her? Let us know. She's avail if you're interested. We figured, it'll be at least 2 months before we start another tank for spawning....
Wednesday 1 April 2009
Missing infamous betta lines
Hobbyists come and go. With the economy turmoil, this is more apparent in betta business. While there are more sellers selling bettas in auction sites, it becomes more difficult to find a distinct "line" of individuals. Those people who were well-known for their particular lines are no longer seen in public scenes. If you attempted to contact them, many would not even reply back, indicating they have not monitored their means of communication anymore.
Interesting enough, we contacted some of these guys and in rare occasion only to find that the original infamous persons are no longer there, but someone else is doing the business on their behalf. The quality sold is completely different - that reminds us on selling your eBay's account when you no longer need it but it has lots of positive feedbacks ;)
True that many of them only do bettas as a side hobby, but given they've produced very nice line, one would have thought that they'll keep developing the particular line, given a long list of enthusiasts who are still willing to pay large sum of money for their lines.
Some of you may still remember when the first halfmoon was introduced, or that first gold colour, or that copper gold, or that special colours. Many, including us, were simply admiring others when they purchased those $300 per piece of luxury, but that was the very admiring times. Invention of the new colour, bringing overwhelming feeling of creativity and what one can do with such bettas.
There is another group of people who like traditional colours of red or blue or turq etc. They mostly aimed at improving the structural form of bettas, getting that high dorsal, improving caudal or anal, and working darn hard to make sure there is a greater meaning to the hobby.
The reality is, it's a hobby, albeit it's a very expensive one. It gets put aside when other "important" things come along. Producing a unique and distinct, and sometimes subtle, line is very difficult. Not many people appreciate this. Looking at some of the infamous site for bettas, surprisingly they still survive, with some loyal followers. Sure they still charge about double for their fish, but at least the buyers knew exactly what they're getting.
On average, buying 1 pair from these guys is equivalent in cost to buying about 5 fish from other sellers. But one wonders whether there is *really* any difference between their lines and, say, your other bettas that you've acquired from auction sites? This reminds us on the discussion we've got about "designer" or "boutique" bettas, in the middle of this importation post.
Perhaps the law of economy dictates that they ought to disappear. Just like our jobs started to disappear to other countries such as India and China. It's a laugh these days if you can find Australian-made goods when 90+% comes from China. There are too many cheap goods available, and for those that are branded and expensive ones, they still come from China! What would the consumers want? Anything that is affordable. In tough times junk-food outlets makes a lot of money, that shows the sentiment of our consumers.
So for those infamous betta people out there, where have you gone to?
Interesting enough, we contacted some of these guys and in rare occasion only to find that the original infamous persons are no longer there, but someone else is doing the business on their behalf. The quality sold is completely different - that reminds us on selling your eBay's account when you no longer need it but it has lots of positive feedbacks ;)
True that many of them only do bettas as a side hobby, but given they've produced very nice line, one would have thought that they'll keep developing the particular line, given a long list of enthusiasts who are still willing to pay large sum of money for their lines.
Some of you may still remember when the first halfmoon was introduced, or that first gold colour, or that copper gold, or that special colours. Many, including us, were simply admiring others when they purchased those $300 per piece of luxury, but that was the very admiring times. Invention of the new colour, bringing overwhelming feeling of creativity and what one can do with such bettas.
There is another group of people who like traditional colours of red or blue or turq etc. They mostly aimed at improving the structural form of bettas, getting that high dorsal, improving caudal or anal, and working darn hard to make sure there is a greater meaning to the hobby.
The reality is, it's a hobby, albeit it's a very expensive one. It gets put aside when other "important" things come along. Producing a unique and distinct, and sometimes subtle, line is very difficult. Not many people appreciate this. Looking at some of the infamous site for bettas, surprisingly they still survive, with some loyal followers. Sure they still charge about double for their fish, but at least the buyers knew exactly what they're getting.
On average, buying 1 pair from these guys is equivalent in cost to buying about 5 fish from other sellers. But one wonders whether there is *really* any difference between their lines and, say, your other bettas that you've acquired from auction sites? This reminds us on the discussion we've got about "designer" or "boutique" bettas, in the middle of this importation post.
Perhaps the law of economy dictates that they ought to disappear. Just like our jobs started to disappear to other countries such as India and China. It's a laugh these days if you can find Australian-made goods when 90+% comes from China. There are too many cheap goods available, and for those that are branded and expensive ones, they still come from China! What would the consumers want? Anything that is affordable. In tough times junk-food outlets makes a lot of money, that shows the sentiment of our consumers.
So for those infamous betta people out there, where have you gone to?
Tuesday 31 March 2009
Spawning a dropsy betta
Dropsy is a terrible illness. Not knowing what to do with it and yet not having heart to 'terminate' the bugger. One of the bettas from D&S had dropsy. It's the first time ever we've got this over very long period of time - actually not quite sure when the last time we had it. Anywho, it was all started when he spawned and then somewhat become over-protective male, where he would guard the fry for days without eating. So, he managed to destroy his internal organs, we're not sure which one though. He has been having dropsy for a full month. It gets worst now, he moves about and still "quite" active, but the scales started to show off up to his peduncle now...So that's kinda worrying.
He started to eat recently, and that got us excited. Perhaps it's a bit too late though, but better late than never ;)
He was so active and we were so scared that he's going to pass out very soon that we tried to spawn him ! Heck, might as well try it out and hopefully get the best out of him, won't you agree?
Anyhow, he flares like crazy, build huge nest, female is all ready too, but apparently we had our hope too high. He couldn't manage to wrap the female. The dropsy, or rather the scales sticking out, has prevented him to wrap the female properly. He would position himself on wrapping position, then wrap, somehow the female went loose, and he would just slowly fall to the tank floor. No eggs, nothing :(
We kinda wondered whether we should wait for another couple of days, perhaps if he's not dead yet, to try out with other female. The problem is that we don't have any other smaller females. All of our breeder-quality females are large giants....S'pose we can only wait and see whether he'd get slightly better and we can try it out again. Fingers crossed.
At the moment we're running another experiment on curing the dropsy, by starving him and lowering his temperature to the point that many of his internal organs operate on much lower pace. Tomorrow we'll feed him some vegetables, to help clean up his internals. If that doesn't work, then chances he won't survive these couple of days.
>>> Update: experiment failed. He died a couple of days after.
He started to eat recently, and that got us excited. Perhaps it's a bit too late though, but better late than never ;)
He was so active and we were so scared that he's going to pass out very soon that we tried to spawn him ! Heck, might as well try it out and hopefully get the best out of him, won't you agree?
Anyhow, he flares like crazy, build huge nest, female is all ready too, but apparently we had our hope too high. He couldn't manage to wrap the female. The dropsy, or rather the scales sticking out, has prevented him to wrap the female properly. He would position himself on wrapping position, then wrap, somehow the female went loose, and he would just slowly fall to the tank floor. No eggs, nothing :(
We kinda wondered whether we should wait for another couple of days, perhaps if he's not dead yet, to try out with other female. The problem is that we don't have any other smaller females. All of our breeder-quality females are large giants....S'pose we can only wait and see whether he'd get slightly better and we can try it out again. Fingers crossed.
At the moment we're running another experiment on curing the dropsy, by starving him and lowering his temperature to the point that many of his internal organs operate on much lower pace. Tomorrow we'll feed him some vegetables, to help clean up his internals. If that doesn't work, then chances he won't survive these couple of days.
>>> Update: experiment failed. He died a couple of days after.
Monday 30 March 2009
When is a halfmoon isn't a halfmoon?
If you are considering of getting giant HMPK, be very aware that fish sold as HMPK is not necessarily qualified as such. HMPK or the "halfmoon" term requires specific satisfaction to the standard. Many fish with spread of 180 degree is not necessarily halfmoon! It has to have sharpe edges of rays where the caudal forms a very distinct D shape. Read more on other resources on the net as to what categorized as halfmoon.
Long story short, a large number of giants being sold as HMPK are in fact standard traditional plakad. What it really means is that if you manage to spawn them, you *will* get plakads until you work on it for at least 3 generations before you get a decent halfmoon form. This is irrespective of the price tag carried by such fish, after all the price tag is owner's way of parting from his fish ;)
As mentioned numerous times in this blog, giant developments are still in its infancy. Lots of people try to get giants by working their way through from square zero. Even some well-known breeders still ignorant in categorizing their line. Mixing standard giant plakad to halfmoon line would introduce the mutation to the halfmoon, hence in the eventuality we would expect some halfmoon giants from the outcome, however you may be disappointed to wait for 3 generations to see it :)
This topic is applicable as much to the HM giant line, however in the long fin giants such "misidentification" is easily spotted. When most of the spawn yields to SD or even VT, there is no way one can claim it to be HM ;) The categorization is somewhat blurred on HMPK since their tails are shorter and more difficult to distinguish.
Others even argued that they have OHMPK in their spawn when in fact it is no more than a standard plakad that spread over 180 degree. If it's not sharpe and straight rays, it's not "halfmoon", quite simple really...
Here is a sample that cannot be called as "halfmoon". Sure he has 180 degree spread, but his caudal edges are rounded, not straight ray.
Here is a sample of a straight rays halfmoon. Notice how each rays is as straight as it could be, from peduncle to the end of caudal, making the whole caudal forms a perfect D shape ?
Sometimes the fish doesn't spread to the max but it is clearly that he's a very nice halfmoon. For instance, this HMPK has very sharp straight rays and it is clearly visible eventhough he is not showing it.
The following male, for instance, is a non-stabilized halfmoon gene. His parentage comes from standard plakad being mixed to HMPK. Apart from the number of rays branchings (the more branchings the more likely it is coming from HM line), sometimes you can tell this from the mere fact that his rays are not smooth, quite raggerized and they look as if the fish had been crossed to crowntail (CT). Standard plakad derived fish will have the traditional plakad caudal, a very much rounded shape.
Now, there may be some halfmoon siblings in the spawn, but that's just simply reiterating the point that the line isn't stable yet, where it produces mixture of halfmoon and non-halfmoon genes (halfmoon-carrier). Continuing to work on the line till it produces a 100% halfmoon is desired, but that would requires hard work over a number of generations.
So there you go, shop wisely and be educated. A hefty price tag does not necessary mean you're getting good quality bettas and similarly, a seemingly cheaper price tag doesn't mean you're getting crappy quality, it could be that the seller is more realistic on his/her pricing ;)
Long story short, a large number of giants being sold as HMPK are in fact standard traditional plakad. What it really means is that if you manage to spawn them, you *will* get plakads until you work on it for at least 3 generations before you get a decent halfmoon form. This is irrespective of the price tag carried by such fish, after all the price tag is owner's way of parting from his fish ;)
As mentioned numerous times in this blog, giant developments are still in its infancy. Lots of people try to get giants by working their way through from square zero. Even some well-known breeders still ignorant in categorizing their line. Mixing standard giant plakad to halfmoon line would introduce the mutation to the halfmoon, hence in the eventuality we would expect some halfmoon giants from the outcome, however you may be disappointed to wait for 3 generations to see it :)
This topic is applicable as much to the HM giant line, however in the long fin giants such "misidentification" is easily spotted. When most of the spawn yields to SD or even VT, there is no way one can claim it to be HM ;) The categorization is somewhat blurred on HMPK since their tails are shorter and more difficult to distinguish.
Others even argued that they have OHMPK in their spawn when in fact it is no more than a standard plakad that spread over 180 degree. If it's not sharpe and straight rays, it's not "halfmoon", quite simple really...
Here is a sample that cannot be called as "halfmoon". Sure he has 180 degree spread, but his caudal edges are rounded, not straight ray.
Here is a sample of a straight rays halfmoon. Notice how each rays is as straight as it could be, from peduncle to the end of caudal, making the whole caudal forms a perfect D shape ?
Sometimes the fish doesn't spread to the max but it is clearly that he's a very nice halfmoon. For instance, this HMPK has very sharp straight rays and it is clearly visible eventhough he is not showing it.
The following male, for instance, is a non-stabilized halfmoon gene. His parentage comes from standard plakad being mixed to HMPK. Apart from the number of rays branchings (the more branchings the more likely it is coming from HM line), sometimes you can tell this from the mere fact that his rays are not smooth, quite raggerized and they look as if the fish had been crossed to crowntail (CT). Standard plakad derived fish will have the traditional plakad caudal, a very much rounded shape.
Now, there may be some halfmoon siblings in the spawn, but that's just simply reiterating the point that the line isn't stable yet, where it produces mixture of halfmoon and non-halfmoon genes (halfmoon-carrier). Continuing to work on the line till it produces a 100% halfmoon is desired, but that would requires hard work over a number of generations.
So there you go, shop wisely and be educated. A hefty price tag does not necessary mean you're getting good quality bettas and similarly, a seemingly cheaper price tag doesn't mean you're getting crappy quality, it could be that the seller is more realistic on his/her pricing ;)
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